Oral history given to Ruthie Dittman

[This is an oral history taken and transcribed by Ruthie Dittman. The date is not recorded, but it must have been around 1980. Bracketed remarks are either Ruthie's, as in the typescript, or mine (G = R. Gwillim Law, Jr.), added in 2012.]

BESSIE GWILLIM LAW (1886 - 1983)

R = Ruthie; B = Bess

R - I'd like you to try and remember or think about the oldest people you can remember in the family. Now, do you remember your grandfather?
B - No, he died before I was ...
R - Yes, he died in 1864, so that would have been sometime before. Now, your grandmother. . You do remember her. . Elizabeth Griffiths?
B - Yea, I was just about 3 years old, I think, when she died and, I remember her reaching into her apron pocket and giving me some rock candy when Aunt Matilda, that was her daughter she lived with, didn't want her to give it to me and she'd so opticiously [G: surreptitiously] give it to me. Ha . , I just remember that little thing.
R - Do you remember what she looked like at all.
B - Yes, she was old and fat and her face was wrinkled. That's all. I think she parted her hair in the side.
R - She must have been . . Let's see. . She died in 1889 .
B - Yea, I was 3 years old, you see.
R - How about Matilda. How much longer did she live. Do you remember her at all after that.
B - No, she had dark hair and looked very old maidish. That's all I remember. She never married.
R - Was she tall?
B - No, I wouldn't say so.
R - Where did they live? Do you remember?
B - They lived at the corner of Prospect Place and Maple Street.
R - Oh, yea, that house is still there. Did they have an apartment there or . . where did they live. . on the ground floor. .
B - Yea.
R - On the left hand side facing it or . .
B - I think it was on the Prospect Street . . Prospect Place.
R - Do you remember what happened to Matilda after she died. Do you remember?
B - No. .No.
R - So you don't really remember too much about her. Did she work or anything?
B - No. .
R - O.K., how about the Moore side of the family. Do you know. .
B - No, they all died before I was born.
R - Yea, and Sarah Gray Dennett too died before you were born. Now, who do you remember of the Moores and the Dennetts up in Standish.
B - I remember Fred Dennett and Mae Dennett.
R - How were they related. Do you know?
B - They were my Mother's cousins.
R - Is that who you visited when you used to go up there?
B - No, my Aunt Louisa. . I remember my Aunt Louisa. That was my Mother's aunt who lived in their house in Standish and we used to go up there in the summer and my mother let me crochet on Sunday and Aunt Louisa didn't like it at all.
R - What, were they Methodists or what were they?
B - No, well, my Mother was a Methodist. I don't know what Aunt Louisa was.
R - But, she didn't go for any of that stuff on Sunday.
B - She said "Emma, you shouldn't let that girl crochet on a Sunday", and my Mother would say, "Well, she can't do anything else . . there is nothing else for her to do . . she would want to crochet" .. so she let me. . Ha..
R - What was the house like up there?
B - I wish I could describe it. It was beautiful. It has those warming pans with the long handle .. they used to put in the beds . . and my mother always said she thought her grandmother died, froze to death in the night and that's how she died because they had wood fires and in the morning it would be cold there and Aunt Louisa woke up one morning . . found her mother dead . . so that's the only way she died. . my Mother always thought she froze to death. . because they were cold .. they was one room, maybe two, that had no windows in and you had to go through a bedroom one way or another to get to these rooms. They didn't have any windows at all. . they just petitioned [G: partitioned] them off with boards. . and he was a squire up there. He really was one of the wealthiest people up there and the girls had one dress between them .. the two older girls . . and one would go to church one Sunday with the dress (I mean best dress) then the other one would wear it the next Sunday.
R - That's really something.
B - That was really so.
R - Did they have a farm up there?
B - They owned a big tract of land there right in the center, but I don't know whether they farmed or not. They had a big barn. . big barn, and they had a one hoss shay up there too. Every fourth of July we used to get it out and have it harnessed up to a horse and go in the parade with it.
R - Did they use the horse to travel with when you were up there or did they . .?
B - No, we didn't have anything to travel with particularly . . just horses mostly. But, we had to get there from Sebago Lake in a stage coach. That was two miles. They had to bring the mail and go after passengers.
R - Did they have the train up to Sebago Lake? Is that how you used to get up there?
B - Yea.
R - Did you go up and spend the whole summer or what?
B - Yea. My mother and I did. Then my Father'd come up when he could. The rest of the family would come up when they could.
R - And, at that time, there was only Louisa living in the house?
B - She was dead by that time. My mother inherited the house from her.
R - I see, and how long did you own it?
B - Oh, ten years, I guess. When I got married and my mother couldn't go up there anymore, so that's when she sold it.
R - What did you do all summer long?
B - Oh, played around, read. There was a library across the street in an old. . great big old house. The Thompson sisters ran the library and they had all of Shakespeare and I read all those books that were really worthwhile. . that's one way I got my education, I think. And, then there were young people there. We had barn dances every Saturday night. They all said they waited for the time when the Gwillims came up and then things began to pop. They did things.
R - Were the Moores up there at all? Do you remember any one them.
B - No. I remember one. . who lived over in the cabbage patch. . That's where my mother was born. They called it the cabbage patch and there was one that she said was related to us. I've forgotten what his first name was. . His last name was Moore. He was a little older than I was.
R - You don't remember anything about the Moore homestead up there or anything?
B - No. Where my mother lived after her mother and father got married was down toward Portland and it eventually became the poor house in town. It was a great big farm. My mother's father was a farmer.
R - That was Jonathon Moore, huh?
B - Yea.
R - He was a farmer. Do you remember your mother talking about him at all? Do you remember any stories she might have told about him or your grandmother?
B - No.
R - You don't remember any family stories or antedotes [G - anecdotes]? Do you remember your father ever talking about his father, at all?
B - No.
R - And, he you thought was a saddlemaker or he made harnesses.
R - Yea, and they lived in Hartford.
B - Yea.
R - O.K. . and your father. . what kind of schooling did he have? Did he ever . .
B - Nothing better than grammar school.
R - Grammer school education. What did he do after he got out of grammer school?
B - I think he went right into his brother-in-law's jewelry store in Hartford.
R - And, that's how he was trained in . . What was his brother's name? Do you know which brother that was?
B - Um, it was his brother-in-law .. Griswold, his name was.
R - Were there any brothers other than Matilda you mentioned before . . were there any other Gwillims in this area?
B - Oh, there sure were. I don't think in this area. There was Reese Gwillim who was a lawyer in New York City. He was the only one that went to college and had an education but my father was a great reader. He had all the histories. We had books, books, books and we would be hungry rather not having paid $5.00 for a book. And, my mother used to scold him for it. So that's where you got yours. He was very well read and he could speak in public as well as any educated man you ever saw. He used to lead the prayer meetings and even preach for the minister when the minister couldn't do it. He was very intelligent. . my father was.
R - And he sang didn't he?
B - Yes, he sang. . and he and his brothers all sang at their mother's funeral.
R - Did they?
B - Much to my mother's disgust. She didn't see how they could do it. But, they all had good voices and they sang in a quartet at the mother's funeral.
R - What did they sing, do you remember?
B - I don't know.
R - So, at that funeral, who were the brothers that were around. Do you know. It must have been Reese.
B - There was Reese and Robert was Reed Gwillim's father.
R - Where did he live, do you know?
B - Uh, he lived out in the middlewest . . Missouri, I think.
R - And, he came in for the funeral?
B - Yea, I think so. And the other was Price Gwillim and he's the one I think that died out in California.
R - And, was he here at that time?
B - I don't know. I don't know how many did sing.
R - Yea, Yea .. but your father sang at church all the time. What was it a quartet that sang at the church or was it a choir.
B - A choir. . Yes.
R - Did any of them speak Welsh?
B - I think maybe Reese did, but I know none of the rest did.
R - Your grandmother. . Did she ever speak Welsh?
B - Not that I ever knew.
R - Did she have an accent. Do you remember if she did?
B - I don't remember her talking at all.
R - Of course, at that age . . certainly. . O.K. . Now, let's see. . you don't remember your mother's parents at all?
B - No.
R - Do you remember what Reese looked like or any of the family looked like?
B - No, I think Reese had a white beard as far as I can remember and moustache.
R - And, how about .. you talked about Matilda and she didn't leave much of an impression. . How about . . let's see, there were two Gwillims that married one Kellogg . . what was . . that were sisters of your father.
B - Well, there was Elizabeth and Carrie, Matilda and Emma. But I didn't know them very much. I remember Carrie [R: Caroline]. She's the only one I remember.
R - O.K., your mother's brother, Frank, wasn't it. . Frank Moore. Do you remember him at all?
B - Yes, I sorta remember. . Oh, yes, I was grown up when he died. He lived in Saint Louis and my mother and Harry went out to his funeral and Harry had to sleep in the room with the corpse. He didn't like it very much.
R - Ha, Ha . . I can imagine. Oh, dear. . Did he ever marry? Frank?
B - Yea, he married and his wife died then his wife's sister kept house for him for a good many years.
R - He never had any children?
B - No.
R - So that was really the end of that Moore line wasn't it?
B - Yea.
R - He was an engineer did you say and he built bridges or something?
B - Yes. He built .. I've forgotten which bridge it was over the Mississippi River. It wasn't Eades bridge [G: Eads Bridge, completed 1874] . . it was another bridge that went I think from Kansas City to Kansas .. I guess from Saint Louis to East Saint Louis. It was a very noted bridge.
R - And he was the engineer for that? Do you know of anything else he worked on?
B - No. I think I've got a. . I don't know whether I have that paper about him or not. . I might have a paper about him that told about his life .. what he had done .. I don't remember.
R - Then your mother was born in Standish and she . . what was her education, do you know?
B - She went to the academy in Standish. They had an academy there after grammar school, I suppose. I know that they used to send young people up from Cuba at that time and they were in this academy. It was a special education. She took French and piano music which was sort of unusual in those times, I think.
R - And, she played the piano.
B - Some. Enough to get by.
R - Do you know how long she stayed there. Do you have any idea?
B - Yes. After . . I don't know whether it was before or after her father died, she and her mother moved to Portland and they lived there until her mother died and then she came down to Hartford.
R - Let's see . . Jonathan Moore died in Portland too, so they . .
B - Yes, so I guess they moved there before he died.
R - Apparently he was no longer a farmer. Do you know what he did in Portland?
B - No.
R - O.K. Let's see. Her mother died in '69 so she was 27 years old. Does that sound about right?
B - Yea, because she was 32, I think, when she was married.
R - Did she work up in Portland? Do you know?
B - I think she must have worked up there in a retail store of some kind because. . let's see. . she came down to Boston first where Mae Dennett and Fred Dennett were living. . They were working in some store there and she went down and lived with them for awhile. They all lived together because I remember she said that one night Fred Dennett was sitting under the light. . they had gas lights then that burned. . and Mae Dennett had a chignon and she thought that she would scorch off some of the loose hairs that were hanging out of it and it caught fire and she began beating Fred's head. over the head with the fire. My mother told about that incident. They had alot of fun together. They were very close . . as close as brothers and sisters, I think. And, then there was a big store here in Hartford named Sawyer's Store and they came from Portland and they wrote to my mother and said they had a job for her if she wanted to come down there. So she went down there and lived with them and she worked in the store. There she met my father. That's how she got acquainted with him.
R - Do you know she met him or did they . .
B - At church. Methodist church they both went to.
R - They were married in . . I don't have the wedding date here. . but they were married and did they move here when they were first married?
B - Yea, he was in business here.
R - When they were married?
B - Yes.
R - And, how did he happen to come here. Was he . .
B - The old man Sessions. The oldest one of the Sessions was Methodist and he knew my father because my father was a great worker in the church and there was a business for sale here and he told my father that he'd help him get started so I think that he lent him the money or something and he came out here so the first child they named Stanley Sessions Gwillim because the Sessions they were very, very friendly.
R - O. K. That must have been in about . . Well, let's see, Daddy was born in '78, so that must have been about '76 or before.
B - They were married in '75, you see.
R - In '75. . oh, they were .. well, that's a date I don't have. . at least I don't think.
B - On Thanksgiving Day I think it was the 25th. . I'm very sure it was.
R - Very good. They're going to have that somewhere but I don't have it here . . might as well fill it in. Where were they married? In Hartford?
B - They were married in Boston. My mother's very wealthy cousin there. She had one cousin who married a man who was in the ice business up there. That was June Dennett, I think. That married. . she and my mother were like sisters, so she went up there and they were married there.
R - I see. Then they came here to live right away?
B - Yea.
R - Where did they live first? Do you know?
B - Yes, down on North Main Street. What was North Main Street. I think it's been torn. . it was right opposite Ingraham's factory. Now you'd think it was a terrible place. But that was all there was there then .. no hill at all at that time.
R - What did they do. . have a rent?
B - Yea, they had a rent. They lived in the house with Clara Blair's mother and father. That's how I've always been friendly with them.
R - And, did they probably join the Methodist church immediately.
B - Oh, yes. .
R - It must have been around 1875 that they got involved in the Methodist church .. the one on Prospect Street, right?
B - Yea.
R - O.K. Then . . Where was the store located then. Do you know?
B - I think it was Main Street. There was no bridge there [R: railroad] then and railroad tracks went along there and it was just below where the tracks were. I can remember that place very easily.
R - I've seen pictures of Gwillim's store being on the second floor above where the now Carl Mason is. [R: C.V. Mason Insurance near corner of Main Street and High Street]
B - I don't think that they were ever on the second floor. No.
R - I saw a picture somewhere that . . now maybe he was on the first floor there it appeared by the sign that it might have been the second floor.
B - But, I know he was never on the second floor.
R - Was he in that run of stores at all do you think?
B - Yes, and there was a bakery. . Strums had a bakery store right next to him. Then he moved over on to North Street . . North Main Street.
R - That was near the old police station there in that general area.
B - Yea, just next to Gridley [R: House] Hotel.
R - That must have been where the police station was later on.
B - Yea.
R - All that's gone. . unfortunately.
B - Yea.
R - That street was so interesting. . isn't very interesting anymore. It wasn't strictly· a jewelry store, was it?
B - There was stationery. He had stationery in with it. My mother always said he got stuck when he bought the place. There was so much truck and trash in it. I don't know how he ever got it cleaned out and made into, I guess, your father helped do that, I'm not sure.
R - You don't know how long he was up on Main Street then moved to North Main?
B - No. But it must have been . . well maybe, ten years. Because, I can remember when he was on Main Street so I must have been ten years old, at least.
R - So he was here for awhile. Wasn't he a travel agent at one time?
B - Yes. He sold tickets on the Cunard Line, I think. I remember.
R - Well . . the big time spenders in town.
B - Yea. He never got a smell of the sea.
R - Before we get too deep into modern times, did you ever hear tell why they left Wales in the first place?
B - No. I didn't. But, I know that his father was a gambler and he gambled on the boat on the way over here and my grandmother made my father promise that he would never play cards and he never did and my mother loved to play cards, but he never would, he promised his mother he wouldn't and he didn't.
R - Oh, that's interesting. Ha. See, how those are all the little stories I'm looking for.
B - Well, we all had integrity . . the Gwillims did. If they made a promise, they did it.
R - Well, your father was an extremely religious man anyhow wasn't he?
B - Yes.
R - I remember seeing in the paper when he came to town that Mr. Sessions wrote of his high integrity . . that how fortunate to have him. a man of his high caliber to move into Bristol. I can remember that. So, apparently he thought he had quite high integrity too. According to the obituary for your grandmother, the reason she came was because she was in very poor health and they told her that if she stayed in the damp climate of Wales, she wouldn't live very long. I was wondering if this . .
B - But, she lived to be 85 or something.
R - The climate agreed with her. Apparently she did have asthma. Does this ring a bell with you at all.
B - That didn't stop her having 8 or 9 children.
R - Yea. Daddy had asthma, so he must have inherited it, but apparently it was the asthma that she was very ill.
B - Yes, I remember a little bit about asthma.
R - Because, Daddy had it quite bad and Teggie's [G: Thomas E. Gwillim] had it but seems to have outgrown it but I was wondering if you remembered that at all.
B - Well, I don't, but now that you mention it, I think it does kind of come to me that she wasn't very well.
R - Yea, but apparently whenever it was bothering her, cleared up when she got here, but according to the obituary that she was told that she had to get out of the climate.
B - Well, I wouldn't be surprised.
R - O.K. On the other side, they'd been here forever anyway, so you wouldn't . . . first place. . . because they go so far back. Uncle Stan was born in approximately '76. Was he 2 years older than Daddy?
B - Yes.
R - So.
B - Yes, he was born the first year they were married and the 25th of November. . his birthday was the 16th of October, so they had him very soon.
R - And, where else do you remember your living in town after . . Do you remember living on North Main Street at all?
B - No. I never knew anything about that.
R - And, where do you remember first?
B - First I remember, is living on Goodwin Street.
R - Was it at the corner of Stearns, that place?
B - No. . down near High Street. It was about three houses up on the right and it was an eight room house. We only had stoves in it and a register in the ceiling and one that went up into one bedroom, but that's the first place I remember, but I was born on Sessions Street then they moved over to Goodwin Street. That house on the corner of Goodwin and . . whatever that street is. . Queen.
R - That's gone now. That one.
B - Edith says that she never went by a house in Bristol but that Stan would say, "We lived there once".
R - Did alot of moving, huh?
B - Yea.
R - You apparently rented most of them. Did they ever own a house?
B - Yea. This one where we lived 12 years, my father owned, but he never had money enough to pay for the taxes so he sold it for $2,500.00 and he had to pay for the taxes with that. . My father was not a business man. That's all there is to it.
R - Gee, how did he ever afford all of you kids growing up and everything?
B - He couldn't, but my grandmother left money enough for Stan to have a college education and he went to Wesleyan and he was really. . he and Harold were the smart ones in the family. Your father and I were the dumbbells. We were just good natured. That's all. But Stan went one year to Wesleyan and he copied somebody's papers and get expelled. So, that was the end of his college.
R - Who paid for that, did you say?
B - His grandmother.
R - Which one?
B - Grandmother Gwillim.
R - Oh, she left this to . . I didn't realize that. . That's interesting. So she had a little money anyway.
B - She had something, I don't know where she got it from.
R - Yea, you don't know whether William Gwillim had his own business or anything.
B - No. I don't know anything about that .. No.
R - Apparently she had enough money so she was supporting herself more or less at that point, huh. . And, so after he graduated or left, what did he do after that?
B - He went into an office. He worked for a coal company and then he used to put on dances around. . he was a good organizer and these Trumbull's down in Plainville liked him so much, they were part of the people that used to go to the dances, they offered him a good job down there at $25.00 a week, and, that was a wonderful job. . That was about the time he got married. Then he kept right on going up in Trumbull's. He had it in him. . That's why I figure, if you have it in you, you get ahead anyhow. . .what happens.
R - Yea, he sounds like he was fairly ambitious . . trying all kinds of things and everything.
B - Yea, and he could do it. He was a good organizer.
R - How did he happen to meet Minnie Funk? [R: also Funck]
B - Oh, they grew up and were in the high school together.
R - Oh, I see. So he went with her for a long time. And, when daddy went to optometry school. . did he? Did he graduate from high school?
B - No, I don't think he did. I'm pretty sure he didn't. None of them did but Stan. Harold. . what did he do? He went to . . Harold went to a .. what do you call it.. a watchmakers' school. horological. .
R - Where was that?
B - In Philadelphia. . for awhile. . but he didn't like it. Your father liked the jewelry business but none of the others did. That's how your father stayed in it. But, Harold was more mechanically inclined and he went to that for a year then he went into the telephone business. He worked in the telephone office when he was about 16 and stayed there nights. They had a night man.
R - That was in Bristol?
B - Yea.
R - I thought he took off when he was 14.
B - Oh, he did and then he'd get back again.
R - Then he came back. Oh, I see. I thought he was gone from 14 years old on, but no, he just came and went, huh?
B - Yes. He got all dressed .. got two pairs on pants and two union suits and I don't know what not and went off with another fellow that . . Did you ever know Charlie Anderson in Bristol?
R - The name is familiar.
B - He built a house up on Jerome Avenue or somewhere way up there and way back . . a beautiful home. Well, he had amounted to quite alot. Well, he had a brother and Harold went off with him one winter and my mother knew he was tramping but he finally ended up down in North Carolina. My mother said she fed all the tramps beautifully when the came around that winter. She was worried stiff about him and he got into trouble down there for vagrancy and I don't know whether he called your father up or something for money and he wouldn't give it to him, so Harold was always very bitter against your father. "He wouldn't help me out when I needed it". But Den wasn't going to help him .. he thought he better get out of it himself .. he got into it. And, I think that he finally got Stan to send him some money so he could get home.
R - How old was he when he finally left this area?
B - Well, I don't know. I've forgotten. He went out to mother's brother out in Saint Louis and got in with the telephone company out there. That's what he liked the best of anything .. cause he had been in it for years, off and on.
R - Yea, and he met Grace out there. Did he?
B - Oh, no. Grace's mother and my mother were great friends and she and her sister used to come out to Standish to visit me every summer, but it didn't happen that Harold would be home when there .. when they came . . so one summer, her mother was bound. . she said "Harold and Grace should get together and should be married. They should be married." I don't know why she was so vociferous about it. So, Harold was coming home one summer and Grace and her sister were training as nurses and they were over in Portland, Connecticut. . training. . and, so my mother invited Grace over for the time that Harold was here .. They fell dead in love with each other .. which would never usually happen.
R - I know.
B - And, so he bought her a diamond ring and gave it to her. And, my mother said when are you going to be married .. next year? Oh, we're not going to wait that long. So, my mother went with Grace in just a month or so out to her brothers where Harold was and they were married out there and they were always so . . so. . in love with each other .. all their lives. Wasn't that queer?
R - I should say. Wouldn't happen again in a million years.
B - I always thought the world of Grace and I suppose Harold was like me too and we always were the best of friends.
R - How did Daddy meet Elizabeth Jesse?
B - Well, he went to work out in Schenectady [R: N.Y.] after he'd worked awhile with his father here. He got a job out there and he met her out there. Then, he didn't like it out there and he got a job in Springfield, so they were married out there and came on here and he went to live in Springfield and then he came down to his father's store.
R - Did he go in to business with him or did he buy him out then?
B - Nothing as far as I know. He just went in business with him. As far as I know, your father just took the business. I don't think my mother ever had a thing out of it. It just worked that way. That is all. Nobody made a fuss about it, so that's what happened.
R - Seems to me I remembered that your father went on his payroll or something . . he was paid by daddy, so I gathered that he bought him out because he stayed with him and worked for pay.
B - Well, I never knew that.
R - Cause, I remember somewhere hearing that he was paid $15.00 a week.
B - That my father was?
R - Yes, that Daddy paid him $15.00 a week after he bought him out. Now, I don't know whether he . .or it was just my understanding that he probably bought him out.
B - I never knew it. I thought my father owned the business until he died. It was always T. I. Gwillim and Son, but I don't think your father ever bought into it or anything, as far as I knew anything about it.
R - Yea, could be. That's just what. . I wonder where I came up with a story like that.
B - I don't know. Ha. As far as I knew he didn't.
R - Let's see. What do you remember about .. How did you celebrate Christmas when you were a little girl?
B - Well, that's the funny thing. We never made a speciality of it and that's the reason I don't give a hoot about it now, I think. We never had a tree. I think they did before Harold and I came along when they were young, because I'd heard my father . . I've heard them tell that my father dressed up like Santa Claus and they had transoms over the door of the living room and my mother let the boys stand on a table or something and look over it and my father was Santa Claus and filling the stockings, but as far as I go that's all I remember about any celebration. By the time we got along, they got real tired of having Christmas and Christmas trees and Harold and I each had a chair and when we would get up in the morning there's be our presents on our own chairs. . That's all I remember. Trying ________ and even celebrating Christmas.
R - Did you have a big dinner or anything?
B - No. We had a good dinner every meal but we didn't have anything speeial. It meant anything special to us and that's why I don't now . . I don't give a hoot about a Christmas tree. Everybody wants to still have a Christmas tree, but I don't. It doesn't thrill me at all, cause I never had it.
R - What kind of things did you get for Christmas?
B - Well, once I got . . my father gave me a ring with my birthstone in it and they put oranges and apples and things in and I remember Harold got a steam engine once that he could fuss with. You put water in it and would be boil. But, we would only have one thing or so. My mother's dress my doll up in a new dress or something . . And we were happy! We didn't need all these things. That's why I say we don't need them now. I used to look forward and remember I just couldn't wait until Christmas morning at night and once they bought me a mandolin. I guess that I was about 8 or 9 years old and he hadn't come, so all there was in my stocking was the ring that my father gave me and oranges and apples and things and I was just as happy as a lark. I didn't know they'd bought me a mandolin until they told me so, so I don't know. You can be happy without things. We don't need all these things we have now.
R - Yea, that's for sure. What about the other holidays. Did you celebrate Thanksgiving?
B - Oh, we always had a turkey, but we always went to church. Really that was our celebration .. going to church.
R - How about Halloween?
B - Oh, yes, we used to dress up and go around and tick tack on people's windows and do things.
R - Let's see, how about some of the other holidays. How about May Day, did you celebrate that?
B - No, we just put flowers in a basket. We made May baskets and put them around at different people's houses we wanted to.
R - O.K., Let's see. What did you do on the Fourth of July?
B - Well, the older boys, of course, had firecrackers and I was always scared to death of them and one Fourth of July, I don't know which one of the boys, put a firecracker down Harold's back. He was the youngest and he was always imposed upon. And Stan made a great lot of trouble by he and two or three other boys ringing the Federal Hill School bell and he was arrested, I think. They were always foremost of all the deviltry that was going on.
R - Now, I know where my kids got it.
B - Yes. You just have it in you .. That's all.
R - Yea, I think Rusty is going to be the same way. Ha. It wasn't the school where Uncle Stan got shot for ringing the bell, was it. . was it the Congregational Church?
B - No . . it was Federal Hill bell. And, a man was there guarding it and he shot at the boys and shot Stan in the leg. That's why they knew it was Stan that was among the lot.
R - There were a bunch of them doing it, huh?
B - Yea.
R - Yea. Let's see, did I leave out any other holidays that might be interesting? You went through Patterson or to Federal Hill.
B - Yes.
R - They had eight grades then. What can you remember about the school. Can you remember?
B - Not much. I remember when I was in the eighth grade, I hated arithmetic and I wrote this little poem. I just remember the first part of it. I said "Arithmetic I hate, I hate, but tis too late to warn my fate. I study just as hard as Grace but that doesn't alter the case one ace". And, I went on with it and one of the girls or somebody gave it Mr. Patterson and he laughed about it and he said "Do you mind if I read it for the children". I said no, so I went into the dressing room while he read it. I wouldn't stay there. I heard them all roar with laughter. And, I passed anyhow in mathematics. That's the only thing that got me through and I still don't know it and once I was walking down Main Street and Mr. Patterson was on the other side of the street coming up and he looked at me across the street and he said "Arithmetic I hate, I hate". So he knew why I said it. That was years afterwards. He never forgot.
R - How was the school run? Was it just one side of the what the structure is now?
B - No, it was a big wooden building when I first went and then they built the brick building.
R - Yea, that's on the right hand side.
B - Yes, and I was one of the first pupiis that went into there. I was in about the first grade and going into the second grade. Must have been a good many years ago.
R - Do you remember any of your teachers' names?
B - Yes, I remember Miss Fippiney and Miss Stone. Her father was a doctor in New Britain. . and Miss Adams and Miss Brockway. They were old, old teachers. They were good, too.
R - Did Mr. Patterson teach then too or . .?
B - No, I don't think he taught at that time.
R - Do you remember how the classes were run at all?
B - Not particularly. I know we used to read. . We read Shakespeare and we'd take the different parts and that was good, I learned alot about Shakespeare plays in that way. And Mr. Patterson would come into the room and he'd say "Take 20, divide by 2, multiply by 16" in our heads, you know, and I'd lose him at the second one. There would be a dozen that would raise their hands and have the answer.
R - So, you did not go to high school here, at all?
B - Yes. I went one year then I wasn't very well. I was very tired. I didn't have good blood or something, and the doctor said take me out in the Spring and then I went the next year and I was out for a couple of months and then I went on with them. I guess I was O.K. as far as my lessons went. Then went the second year and then I was in Maine and my mother stayed up until Thanksgiving and I went to that academy where my mother had been before, and I remember then, we were reading Mark Twain and we came to the passage that they were eating cider and having cider and donuts and the teacher said, "Now, do you know what donuts are?". Crullers it was we called them. "Do you know what crullers are?" And I was the only one in the class that knew what a cruller was and that was the only time that I excelled. Oh, I felt so proud of myself, I was the only one that knew. . that's what we always called them down here. So I went while there then the next year I went to Kent's Hill. I took special courses .. whatever I liked.
R - And that was where?
B - At Kent's Hill, Maine.
R - And you went there a year.
B - Yea.
R - What did you do .. well, we've got you know to about sixteen. Tell me during this period what did the kids do with themselves.
B - Well, I don't know. I know I was in music. I studied on the mandolin and on the violin. I played in a church orchestra and I had a little orchestra of my own and Mae Linden and Nellie Roberts were in my office . .
R - Aunt Mae was?
B - Yes.
R - What did she play?
B - I've forgotten now whether it was. . I think Nellie played a banjo. I don't know whether your aunt played a . . you must ask her what she played . . I've forgotten.
R - That's something she didn't tell me when I was doing her.
B - I had ten or twelve in that orchestra and we played for different lodges and things when they wanted us to. We'd get a dollar apiece and they used to meet at my house and Louise Clarke was one, the minister's daughter. Did you ever know the Clarkes. He was the minister .. I don't think you did. You wouldn't have known them. But he was a Baptist minister. His daughter was in it and Myrtle Ives was in it. Clara Blair was in it and a Carlstrom girl. I've forgotten who they all were. I had ten or twelve in it and I, at that time, was taking music over in New Britain from a woman over there that was very good. She had an orchestra and I played in that some too. So, that was what I was doing. I just doing music all the time.
R - You played the piano?
B - Yes. I played the piano for dancing teachers in Bristol.
R - Did you?
B - Yea. And that Bessie Norton-Bessie . . .Stevens danced. She and her sister and the two Norton boys, they were all in this dancing class.
R - Percy Norton? And Irving?
B - Yes, Irving.
R - Julian?
B - There were just two Norton boys. . and two Norton girls and they had a special dance that I had to rehearse for. They were so cute and Bessie Norton was a fat little thing and cute as she could be. So, I played for them for two or three years. I was just in music all the time in those days.
R - What kind of dancing did the kids do? Was it tap dancing or?
B - No. Sort of old fashioned dancing.
R - Folk dancing?
B - Folk dancing, yes.
R - What kind of music did your orchestra play? Was it dance music or just entertaining music.
B - Yes, entertaining music from the operas or whatever was going on at that time.
R - Yea, very interesting. You said that you taught music yourself. Did you have some students.
B - Yea, I taught the mandolin and I don't think that I taught banjo. I took banjo lessons in Hartford from a man in there. I loved banjo.
R - Richard took that briefly. He tried to learn it.
B - I like it. I like the music and everything about it. . which shows I'm low brow. Ha.
R - Ha . . Oh, I don't know. How did you get into Hartford in those days?
B - By the third ____ rail. I think was going at that time. They had a third rail there. I went by train or that way.
R - Did you ever own a horse here?
B - No.
R - Everybody just walked or took the train.
B - Yea.
R - I think that . . were people considered wealthy that owned horses?
B - Oh, yes. It was only the Ingrahams and the Barnes and people like that who had horses. I can remember the first automobile that came to Bristol. The Roots had it. They lived next door to where Barbara Blackhall lives now. [R: High Street]
R - Oh, yes.
B - And they had one daughter and she died. . they were all killed in a train accident. That was quite ________. Going up toward Massachusetts somewhere a train ran into their automobile. They were the first ones to have an automobile and they were all killed. The whole family. But, I had a ride in one of those cars. I knew the girl that lived across the street from them. . Christine Richards and I was there one day playing with her, and they said "Do you want to take a ride?". So, we took a ride and that's the first automobile I ever heard of. I thought it was wonderful. I hated to go out riding with a horse and have the horse take me up a hill. Harry used to take me out for a ride and he used to hire a rig to take me out with and I'd tell him I wanted to get out and walk up the hill. I hated to have the horse drag me up the hill. He used to get mad at me. Ha.
R - You must have had parties around that time. What kind of parties did you have?
B - Oh, we played all the games that you play at a party. Spin the platter and games like that.
R - Did you dance?
B - No. We didn't dance at parties until we got older, but I never went to a party where they danced at home. They had dances at the Redman's Hall or someplace like that. They had, what they called, German's and I think that those have gone out. I don't know exactly what they were but they were sort of folk dance and you changed partners and you did different dances. They called it German's.
R - Did you have picnics or anything like that?
B - No, not as a bunch. We didn't get together much that I can remember.
R - Did you ever go on vacations or anything like that?
B - We didn't have money enough to go anywhere and they had too big a family. When I was very little, they used to go down to Morris Cove and go to a place where they could cook their own meals and when I . . as soon as I got old enough to go anywhere, we just didn't have any money, as far as I could make out . . I guess that was the reason, because, we all loved to go to the shore.
R - But you never got there?
B - No.
R - Until later. What were the Methodist camping grounds? Did you ever go out there?
B - Oh, yes, my father went there . . I used to go down with him to the station down here and walk up. . and that was a great place. My mother used to go down there and stay two weeks at a time when we got older. I guess I wasn't home. And, she loved it down there. They had different rooms, you know, where you could room and get your own meals. . And, she used to go down there. My father'd go down Sundays and nights, but we had to go by train. The train went from Bristol to Forestville. That's the way we got there. Then we walked.
R - That's a good hike from there.
B - Yea, but you got used to hiking in those days.
R - Yea, I suppose so.
B - Alot of marriages were made over there. Young people went there, you know, and met each other.
R - What exactly did they do. Was it like a summer recreation spot or something?,
B - No, it wasn't recreation, it was all religious.
R - Oh, I see.
B - They had different ministers come and had meetings at night and during the day time too. For two weeks, they'd go there just for that.
R - What did they call those tent meetings that they used to have. I can't think of the name. I can remember them talking about it when I was just a little girl. They used to have tents set up at the green and they used to have speakers come in and . .
B - Revivals, you mean.
R - It wasn't a revival. They didn't call it that. They called it something else. . I think it started with an R, but I can't think of the name.
B - I don't remember about that.
R - Do you remember any of the Chitauquas [G: Chautauquas] or . . remember them coming to Bristol at all?
B - No.
R - We've got you now to .. How did you meet Uncle Harry?
B - Well, he was the secretary at Sunday school. . at our Sunday school, and his two sisters were in my Sunday school class, and Clarkson Barnes grandmother was my Sunday school teacher. We used to go up to her house. . it was on the corner of North and West Street. . a little house that stood in there. . and have parties and so I met them and I was friendly with them long before I had anything to do with him. But, I met him. . he used to work at the American Silver Company, and I went to work for them as a . . just a clerk. . that's all and that's where we got together. We went together about 5 years before we were married.
R - Was that your only job, at American Silver Company?
B - Yea.
R - You were there, when Mother was working there?
B - Yea.
R - And, I guess . . did you work in the same office or ?
B - Yes, we worked in a little office that was across the street. There was a little building there. I don't know whether it was there in your time or not, and there were just three of us . . Agnes Curtis and I. . only salesman always came in there . . and Harry. The main office was across the street and your mother worked over there. We used to have parties and we'd both go to the same party.
R - Little knowing you'd be in-laws.
B - No. Yea . .
R - About how old were you when you worked there?
B - I was 26 when I was married so I must have been 21 or 22 when I went there.
R - And you worked there for a number of years?
B - Yea.
R - And you were still working there when you got married?
B - No, I wasn't. I worked up at New Departure. I was private secretary for Mr. Graham. He and Page were in business. Graham and Page had a car or something that they were interested in.. and I was his private secretary. I got $7.00 a week . . And happy to get it .. Ha. It was wonderful.
R - What did you do as a secretary?
B - I took dictation and typed. I went to a business college in Portland for awhile after I got through school before I came home. I stayed there until about Christmas and I took . . Harold came home with scarlet fever . . when we lived on lower Main Street and your father and Elizabeth lived there upstairs . . up over us. . and we lived on the second floor .. and Harold came home with this . . I went up and stayed with Den and Elizabeth while he was quarantined downstairs and I began to take private lessons in stenography from Mr. Spicer. He was just a layman around. He was a good secretary. So, I took . . until I could really do pretty well. Then I went to Portland and went to a business school there for about three months . . So, I got so I could do stenography and I loved it. It was just like another language to me. I loved it .. and I'd look at that and I'd think, I can I translate that. I don't know a thing about it and then all of a sudden it would just come to me and I would be so proud. . to think that I could do it. I just loved it. . So, I worked at New Departure. That was long after I got through at American Silver. We were still going together at that time.
R - You really had quite a good education for someone in those days. A girl in particular . .
B - That's what I wanted and that's what I believe in. I think anybody oughta take what they like to do and want to do. . I've always said if Gwill .. if Reed .. didn't want to go to college, I'd never let him go. I think it's awful to push people into things. It was better . . You learn more if you really like what your learning.
R - I think that's true. That's really quite interesting. And Harold, how old was he when he left town for good.
B - Oh, he was around 15 or 14. They didn't have to go to school in those days.
R - Grammar school, I guess, was about the general thing.
B - And he was smart. He went over what he would like to do. Telephone business. He learned it from the ground up and he got to be a vice-president of it.
R - He retired . . didn't he retire or did he die?
B - Yea, he retired.
R - I'd forgotten . . He was the head of the company out there.
B - He was only 45 when he retired. He got half pay all the rest of his life. He was good. He was the smartest one in the family, I think and Stan was next. Den and I just enjoyed life. Ha .. We didn't like to put in too much effort.
R - Well, it would seem like you did. I think Daddy always worked awfully hard. He was . . always at the store and everything.
B - Yes, he did. He was always well liked by everybody. He had compassion for people. The Polish in Terryville all came and traded with him. They would come in and tell him all their troubles and they liked talking with him. He was a very compassionate person .. thought of other people.
R - So, in later years, when he got awful crabby . . Ha.
B - Well, Ha. .
R - He scared everybody. Ha. .
B - That disease he had changed him completely.
R - Yea . . let's see. . then, you were telling me before that when you and Uncle Harry got married, you moved to Southington ______ didn't you?
B - Yea, he was working Peck, Stowe & Wilcox.
R - In Southington ______. And he worked there after the American Silver Company. And you lived there for about a year . .
B - Yea, a year and a half, I think. My mother was crying all the time because she couldn't live without me. Ha . . and then we came home and then my father died just then, so she kept right on living with us. Harry liked her. He said if she'd been younger, he'd choose her before me. Ha. So, they got along fine together. . Never had a word of trouble whatever.
R - That's really nice. Ha. When you were kids, there was always music in the house, right?
B - Yes.
R - What did everybody play? Didn't you have a little group or something?
B - We never played together. No. My mother could play .. we had an organ and she could play that and I played the mandolin when I was young. I don't think Harold played anything. Your father played a violin and Stan played a guitar, but we never played together.
R - You didn't? I had an idea that you did.
B - No.
R - I remember Daddy used to be able to play Swannee [G: Suwannee] River .. was all he ever played. He would pick up the violin and play a squeaky Swannee River. .
B - He had no ear for music atoll [G: at all] . . and the violin . . he should not have played. Because, you have to be accurate with your fingers on that. But that's what he played anyhow. He couldn't carry a tune and my mother couldn't carry a tune. The rest of us were all musical.
R - Do you remember if your father was really a good singer?
B - Oh, yes .. He had a wonderful tenor voice.
R - Apparently they picked up the Welsh habit of singing, huh?
B - I guess so.
R - You don't know whether his father sang or not . . do you?
B - No.
R - But apparently all the boys sang in the family.
B - Yea.
R - He hums very well. . so it must have come naturally. Let's see, was your mother a particularly a good cook?
B - Yes, she baked her own bread and did everything but my father had chronic diarrhea and he wasn't drafted into the Revolutionary [R: Civil] War for that reason. So, she couldn't cook too much. . I mean. . he had to have very bland food. . and often, he have inferior granum which is what they used to use then and he would have that for supper and I remember how I would love to lick the dish out. I liked it too. We had a good dinner at noon. I don't remember what we had for breakfast and at night we had very little. It was . . I mean. . it wasn't very filling whatever it was. I don't remember. . seems as though it was bread and butter and cake and sauce for supper and that was it.
R - So you had your big meal at noon. Everybody came home for lunch.
B - Yea, my father could walk up from Bristol. We lived on Goodwin Street and it wasn't too far. He'd come at night. he'd work 7 nights a week in those days. He'd go down in the morning and come home at noon . . go back at noon and come back at night and go back again. Only when prayer meeting was and that was Thursday night . . Tuesday and Thursday nights . . I don't know what he did really, but I know he went to church. But, he·used to work every night in the week and I remember when it went down to two nights, I guess, like Monday and Saturday or there'd be just two nights he had to work. But .. he didn't have much time at home.
R - I didn't realize that they stayed open like that all the time.
B - Yea.
R - I thought that was something of modern times. I can remember when I was a kid, it was open Friday nights. That was the only night that they were open.
B - Yea. I guess it was Friday and Saturday nights they finally got to be open and then they dropped one or the other. Finally all of them. But, when you are in business for yourself, you had to be there.
R - Right. Did he have anybody working for him?
B - No.
R - So Daddy was there, huh?
B - I think he did once. There was Merton Bassett that worked for him. But he was considered very honest and he had that reputation and there was one that left Bristol and sent down to Texas to live and every Christmas, he would send up a big order to my father and that was our lifesaver. Because, he knew he was an honest man and if he got any jewelry, he always got it through my father and. . that decided whether we had turkey for Christmas or not. Ha.
R - That one man's order. Ha.
B - Oh, how happy my father'd be when he'd get that order!
R - Yea, it's too bad that someone like him couldn't prosper. Ha.
B - Yea. Ha.
R - I guess he was just too honest. Ha.
B - Yea, that's it. He was a very poor business man and when your father first came there. . I know. . I can remember his going around and marking everything up. He thought my father didn't have . . charge enough for the things, and my father would find it out and he would go around and change them all back again. . So, they were at war all the time as to what they'd charge for the jewelry. My father thought a certain percent was enough and your father'd been off and out in the world . . and he knew it wasn't enough. . So that's why my father never made any success of it practically.
R - Well, he was a deacon in the church, wasn't he?
B - Yes.
R - Do you remember anything that happened in the church? You must have spent alot of time there when you were young.
B - Yea, he was a teacher of an adult class, I know, and finally I think he retired and remember they're corning to our house and giving him a party and they gave him a cane with his name on it. One was, I think, Arthur Barnes. . I think. . and Roland Hull, I remember was one. And there was a Russell that lived on South Street .. he was one .. and a couple of .. 2 or 3 Englishmen that came over to Sessions . . Ray Wasley and a Trudanick. They were in his class. They were all adults and he taught them for years.
R - What was the story about my father joining the church?
B - Your father's joining the church?
R - Yea.
B - I don't remember that.
R - You don't remember about Grandpa Gwillim standing up in the church meeting and saying Denny wasn't a good enough boy to join the church.
B - No .. Ha. I haven't every heard about that. Ha.
R - Daddy always told me that story and he was so mad that he refused to ever join a church and he never did.
B - Your father told you about it?
R - Yea. I wondered if you remembered it. . when his name came up when he was thirteen to join the church. . that Grandpa Gwillim stood up and said that he didn't feel that he deserved to join the church because he wasn't well enough behaved or something.
B - I wouldn't wonder about it. Ha. .
R - Sound like your father? Ha. .
B - Ha .. Yea .. Ha. .
R - So Daddy never did belong to a church ever .. he was so burned up about that.
B - Well, I was too young then to know anything about it. He was eight years older than I was.
R - Yea, then you would have been quite young then. . and you used to sing at the church .. didn't you?
B - Oh, yes. . Yea. . I sang until I got scared and frightened of the .. the longer I tried to sing, the more frightened I got when I'd get up to sing. Now, I remember Mr. Sessions used to take me up to Mount Hope Chapel . . Sundays . . to sing and the last one that I sang was "The Bird with the Broken Pinion Never Soared as High Again". It was a beautiful song .. and that's the last time I ever sang. I never soared as high again .. Ha.
R - Ha ..
B - I thought, I hate it. . why do I go through it? It makes me nervous and I'd feel as though I was going to fall over and so I quit then and there and I never sang a solo afterwards.
R - How old were you then?
B - Oh, I guess I was sixteen or seventeen.
R - Yea, all that time, I remember the article in the paper about you singing when you were four years old, "Jesus Wants me for a Sunbeam", and the whole congregation broke into applause. . the only time they'd ever had a Bessie at the church. Ha . .
B - Ha .. Well, I had a good voice and I took vocal lessons too for awhile and I thought maybe that would cure me of being stage struck . . but it didn't . . and if you are stage struck that's all there is to it. and it's a horrible feeling to be up there and know you've got to sing whether you want to or not and your voice'd almost stop . . So, I thought, I'm not going to do this anymore. . So I didn't.
R - Yea, I know that feeling . . Ha . . not from singing, but I've always had stage fright so . .
B - Playing never bothered me atoll. . I could play anytime.
R - I couldn't do that either . . I was much scared to do that.
B - It's an awful thing ..
R - I would just turn rigid .. I couldn't play ..
B - Yea.
R - Well, we'll go back to when you moved back with your parents and your father died about that period of time and you lived on Woodland Street?
B - Well, we lived on Stearns Street when we came back from Southington. . They had a big house there . . there were three bedrooms .. So, we lived there and then we bought the house on Woodland Street and we moved over there. We didn't live on Stearns Street too long. My father died then we moved over there. That had been a two family house then we changed it into a one family house. And then the war came along, and we couldn't find. . we didn't like the house .. it wasn't what we wanted and you had to go from one bedroom through another to get to it. It was old fashioned. So we sold it. I think we bought it for $4,000.00 and we sold it for $6,000.00. Then we went and bought a place down in Forestville and we liked it in Forestville. We liked the people and everything about it.
R - Was that the place on Kenney Street or did you move someplace else?
B - Yea. We lived in a two family house there at first and then we sold that one. . No, we lived in another house that we paid rent for and then we bought a two family house, then we built the one that was one family. [G: 116 Kenney St.]
R - Oh, you built that one yourself?
B - Yea. And the other one we bought was new but this one was just a one family house.
R - And, Daddy was living on Stearns Street at that time when your father died?
B - Yea.
R - Jack used to talk about . . Now, Jack must have been about .. Your father died in 1916. . Uh . . I don't know how old Jack would have been.
B - Jack was born about 1905 I think.
R - Yea, so he was about eleven. And, this was before Mother and Daddy got married or approximately the same year . . They must have been married about that time . . because. . when was Betty born. . 1918? or 1917? Somewhere in through there. And the lived in a two family . . two or three family?
B - Yea, two family.
R - Elizabeth Jesse had tuberculosis, did she?
B - Well, they never seemed to know what it was. She just seemed to will herself into death, it seemed to me. She knew there was something the matter with her but the doctors couldn't find out what it was and she finally went out to her sister's in Schenectady and lived a long time, and then she came back and she just peatered out somehow or other. . She may have had tuberculosis but they said. . she had that vaccine or whatever it was put into her for tuberculosis and your father never thought she had it and .. but he said if she was out there at some sanitorium and they didn't think she had it either but she wanted that put into her. . whatever it was and . . whatever they put in . . used to put in . . I don't think they do that much now, and she came home and she sat outdoors all winter long with a fur over her and then she just peatered out, that's all and she was bound she had it . . and when they . . on her death certificate, they said poisoning from unknown sources. And, I always thought it was that stuff they put into her to counteract the tuberculosis.
R - That's strange, isn't it?
B - Yea.
R - Tuberculosis was fairly common in those days. You would have thought that they would have recognized it because it was conunon enough.
B - But they didn't really seem to think that she had it, but she was insistent she had it. She was a very nice person. She was a lovely person. I thought the world of her. I've had ten sister-in-laws and Elizabeth and Lila and Grace have always been my favorites. . Ha. . just as though they were my sisters .. all of them.
R - They must have been married about ten or eleven years? Where was Jack when his mother was in the sanitarium?
B - Den had him there at the house and he had housekeepers. I went down there and stayed for a few months. We used to take Jack everywhere with us and he thought the world of us and we did of him too. We took him on vacations and he came up to our house anytime he wanted to. . it was just like home to him.
R - And, when his mother got sick, how old was he?
B - About . . seems as though he was only about six years old when she died.
R - I didn't realize he was that young, so he really can't remember too much about her.
B - No, I don't think he does. I think it was five years or so before your father remarried and he was about ten or eleven then.
R - Was Jack always theatrical?
B - No, I wouldn't think so. . not when he was young. He was good at drawing .. He was very good at drawing. He was artistic.
R - What was his mother like? Was she artistic too?
B - She was an elocutionist and that's where he got his acting from. She used to give readings at different places and be paid for it. She was good. She was a wonderful elocutionist. She could speak in public with the greatest of ease . . and he got that from her certainly.
R - Yea, that's interesting. I always heard that that's where he got his theatrical talent from, but I didn't know why. I didn't know why people thought that . .
B - Well, she did. She gave readings and everything. That was her speciality. She said the only thing she could do well was pop corn.
R - Ha. .
B - She used to pop corn and it was delicious .. Ha ..
R - Ha. . and Jack loves popcorn. Ha. . and always has. .he's gotten popcorn all of his life.
B - Ha .. I guess that's why. Ha.
R - That's pretty good. Ha . . Well, where did Jack get his artistic ability, do you think?
B - Well, I don't know, except from her, maybe she had it, I don't know.
R - Of course, Daddy was a beautiful engraver.
B - Yes.
R - But, I don't recall that he did anything else.
B - No, I don't think so.
R - So then . . let's see. . Daddy married about that period of time and do you remember anything about. . did he sell that two family house or how long did they live there on Stearns Street?
B - They lived there. . your father was married while they were living there, so they must have lived there five or six years at least, maybe more.
R - And, then when he bought the house we're living in now who lived there do you remember?
B - Uh, yea. . who was it now. . He was a city engineer . . Buel. . didn't the Buel's live there? I think Jean Buel and her husband lived there. They built it.
R - Was that Carlton Buel?
B - No, not Carlton. . well, maybe it was Carlton .. He was city engineer anyhow.
R - Wasn't he an architect too or something?
B - No, he was an engineer. It doesn't seem as though that was his name, but maybe it was. I know her name was Jean and they lived up on Stafford Avenue after awhile.
R - They used to live on Carlton Place too .. at one time. The Buel family. .
B - Yea.
R - Was the street like it is now when they moved up there. Was it all built up or . .
B - No, it wasn't that much built up .. I think it's been built up since.
R - Yea, I know the Jennings' house was built in 1925, I think, so they must have still been building in the area.
B - Yes.
R - And, when Betty was born, they were still of Stearns Street?
B - Yea, I think so. I guess Betty and Tommy. . weren't they both born there?
R - I don't think so. I think Betty. . I don't think Tommy was born until they moved over there. What do you remember about Betty when she was little?
B - What do I remember about her? I remember she was smarter than a whip when she was a baby. She was one of the smart ones. She could do everything before most babies could. I remember she used to crow like a rooster or something . . and she wasn't over a year old and she talked before she was a year old. . and we thought she was the smartest baby we ever saw in all our lives. She was a beautiful baby and so smart. . but. . when she was born, she cried and your mother said the only time she didn't cry was when she was eating or if she took her out in the carriage. She was a very unhappy baby, but she was smart as a whip . . she just didn't like the world she'd come in to, I think. Ha .. She was going to get to be grown up as quick as she could. She was really a smart child.
R - And, then Tommy was quite sickly I understand when he was born.
B - Well, I don't remember that, but I remember about every time they came down, Reed would be having chicken pox or something and your mother would bring you all down . . we always got together Thanksgiving and Christmas'. . one place or the other .. and Reed had the mumps one time and I think he had the chicken poxs the other time. . and when he had the mumps we went down to the cider mill in the morning to get some sweet cider and when we came home, he said, "My throat hurts" .. And we looked at it and it was all red and he was having the mumps and never knew a thing about it before and your mother didn't want a turkey or anything up there and I called her up and I said "I betcha that Reed's coming down with the mumps" . . and I don't care, we haven't got anything to eat up here . . we'll come down anyway. Ha .. We came down and. . you .. didn't any of you get the mumps, but later on you got it and then Tommy got it from you.
R - Well, it must have been Betty that got it, cause I had mumps when I . . one year when Daddy and Mother were in Florida and I stayed with Betty .. I didn't want to go down .. I must have been a junior in high school .. and I came down with the mumps out there.
B - Well, it was one or the other, then. Because you got it later . . none of you caught it from him.
R - That's funny. Ha . .
B - He laid on the floor all the time you were down there asleep .. so you didn't play with him much, but he was sick as a dog and then he swelled all up. We didn't make so much of those things as they do now.
R - No .. They were used to them .. Now, they have all these shots and everything so they don't get them. I guess that chicken poxs are all over the town right now. I suppose Russie will get them, sooner or later, but, he hasn't really been near any children, so. . probably not. I can remember having all that stuff, but the kids don't have it so much now. I think they have shots for almost everything, so they don't get those kinds of things anymore.
B - Well Tommy could walk long before Reed could and he was three months younger. Reed didn't walk until he was sixteen months old and Tommy walked when he was nine months old, so you can see, Reed was a great big fat baby before he began to walk at all. . and there was Tommy running all around everywhere. I couldn't see why Reed wouldn't walk but he wouldn't.
R - Some kids don't, you know.
B - He wouldn't walk until he didn't fall down anymore. He didn't want to fall down.
R - Richard didn't walk until he was eighteen months old. David walked at nine months.
B - Isn't that queer?
R - David never crawled, Richard crawled.
B - Reed never crawled. He rolled. He roll around to get where he wanted but he would not crawl. That's queer .. how kids develop .. their minds develop.
R - I guess Tommy was born with jaundice or something? He was awful looking . . my mother said .. she hated to show him to anybody because he was so peaked and yellow. Ha. Ha. .
B - I don't remember that. . because I was all taken up with getting Reed through the world. He was delicate as he could be.
R - From his pictures he didn't .. I think we had one picture of him when he was a baby. . maybe he was standing up. . so he must have been over a year old, but he was certainly a nice fat looking healthy baby then.
B - Yea.
R - So, with Uncle Stan. . what happened to Wilhelmina Funk? She died young, didn't she? Minnie Funk?
B - Yes, she was . . not too young. . I think she was in her forties.
R - Oh, was she?
B - Yes. She had kidney trouble. I know Doris was about fifteen when she died.
R - Oh, was she that old?
B - Yea. And, she couldn't sew a button on. Stan would come up to my house with his mending and I'd do the mending. I think she was sixteen and oh, she was so mad when he married again. . and she never really treated Edith decently. I never thought it was Edith's fault they didn't get along, she just didn't like her.
R - Well that was pretty hard at that age I suppose to accept . .
B - "He has me, why does he have to have anybody else?" She didn't realize he liked to go to dances. He was social. . socially inclined. .
R - How did he meet Edith?
B - Through a friend of his. This friend and his wife invited Stan to meet her one time and she was . . just really what he . . I don't think he was ever really in love with Minnie, but he went with . . .

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